fifty frenchmen can't be wrong (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
some_stars) wrote2011-06-16 07:47 pm
some_stars) wrote2011-06-16 07:47 pm
(no subject)
so, second viewing of First Class. I tried to get a better read on everyone's ages this time. My final decision, based on behavior and looks (adjusting for how all guys in movies look older than they are and all women younger) and occasional logic, is as follows.
Charles and Erik--I don't know if there's official mention of their ages in their first appearance? Everyone seems to act like there is so I may have missed it, but I seem to be basically in tune with fandom in seeing them as 30 or almost. Which actually feels slightly too old, especially for Charles (not least because--how long did that doctorate take him? Undergraduate finishes earlier in England, doesn't it?--and eight years is still quite some time for someone in his circumstances), but I can't read him any younger than 11-12 in 1944, so the linear progression of space-time wins out. Erik likewise seems not-quite-teenage in the first scenes. A year or two younger, maybe. Actually it kind of works for him to be just slightly younger than Charles as their 1962 selves, I'll go with that.
Raven--she can't be that young in 1944, I'm thinking the developmental equivalent of about 7 or 8. Physical cues aren't reliable of course since she ages at half-speed, but her size at least gives an idea of how old the movie wants us to think of her as. Also her voice is clear and steady in the way most younger kids haven't quite developed yet, and she has good enough observational skills and comprehension (and experience) to be able to mimic her idea of a mother, down to the appropriate dialogue. So in 1962, that makes her the mental equivalent of 25-26. She acts a bit younger, but that's pretty clearly because of the way Charles has been treating her their whole life together.
Hank--about 21. He got what I assume was his (first) B.S. at age 15 and clearly didn't stop there--though it could be a Ph.D. he got at fifteen, which honestly would be more logical of a reason to namedrop Harvard specifically, but that just seems, idk. Not quite right. I could certainly buy it though, without any special convincing; it would just make a significant difference in characterization. He's obviously older than the others, but also obviously not by that much. And he seems to have been around some, in a limited sense--spent quite some time at that facility, obviously had some bad experiences out in the world. ...man, I would love to see Hank/Raven(-esque) fic where he realizes how much older than him she is.
Alex and Darwin both seem about 19 to me. Alex maybe 18 or even 17, Darwin maybe 20. Although I think I may be reading a personality trait (protector) as an age marker which it needn't be. I could easily read Alex as older except for his face. And something about him just feels very "older than his years," which requires his years to be not so high.
Angel I could see as young as 17 despite the stripping (before computers and easily-available records, she could have just lied), or a bit older, no more than 20. I feel like I have less to go on with her so it's really just a feeling.
Sean--is that his name, because I've only seen it in fic, but 100% consistently in fic so I think I missed something--is definitely the youngest. (And the one I least share fandom's thing for, because his first scene was like a cocktail of everything Hollywood thinks is quirky and charmingly awkward in young guys that actually makes me want to punch them.) I admit that his face plays a large role in this, I can't help it, but also he just feels the most like a kid. I'd say 16, but I could buy 15 if I pretend his voice was less deep.
Oh and I can't get any kind of a read on Moira because of the way Hollywood always casts adult women characters at least five years too young-looking for any kind of logic, when you take into account their careers and plot function and characterization and their pasts as written. If I were to listen to the movie, I'd say she's about 28.
I will probably have more thoughts soon, primarily derived from staring intently at Erik's face in every scene he was in this time, but they are not quite formed yet. What I have formed is a thought on the ending, namely that it makes EVEN LESS sense than it did the first time. It comes so close to making sense, mostly! I can work with everything well into the climax, and then at some point--not sure if it's when everyone reacts to Shaw's dead body as though it were horrifying and tragic and not in any way expected/necessary (EXPLODING NAZI WAR CRIMINAL, sorry, it's a reflex at this point), or when Erik starts flinging the bullets every which way, or when everyone acts as though Charles were simultaneously dying and not injured at all but just lying down for some reason, or when Erik and Raven just leave and take any possible transportation with them (teleportation? Nope! Magno-flying the broken plane out with everyone conveniently stashed inside it? Nope! Bye Charles, hope you don't bleed out or anything before you eventually get to a hospital hours and hours from now!), but somewhere in there everything flips to "wait, why are you--why are you DOING that, ANY of you, what the FUCK" and I just start harvesting the faces and emotions as "things to include when working out characterization, but obviously didn't actually HAPPEN this way because they make NO SENSE." This may be why I'm having trouble reading post-movie fic.
Charles and Erik--I don't know if there's official mention of their ages in their first appearance? Everyone seems to act like there is so I may have missed it, but I seem to be basically in tune with fandom in seeing them as 30 or almost. Which actually feels slightly too old, especially for Charles (not least because--how long did that doctorate take him? Undergraduate finishes earlier in England, doesn't it?--and eight years is still quite some time for someone in his circumstances), but I can't read him any younger than 11-12 in 1944, so the linear progression of space-time wins out. Erik likewise seems not-quite-teenage in the first scenes. A year or two younger, maybe. Actually it kind of works for him to be just slightly younger than Charles as their 1962 selves, I'll go with that.
Raven--she can't be that young in 1944, I'm thinking the developmental equivalent of about 7 or 8. Physical cues aren't reliable of course since she ages at half-speed, but her size at least gives an idea of how old the movie wants us to think of her as. Also her voice is clear and steady in the way most younger kids haven't quite developed yet, and she has good enough observational skills and comprehension (and experience) to be able to mimic her idea of a mother, down to the appropriate dialogue. So in 1962, that makes her the mental equivalent of 25-26. She acts a bit younger, but that's pretty clearly because of the way Charles has been treating her their whole life together.
Hank--about 21. He got what I assume was his (first) B.S. at age 15 and clearly didn't stop there--though it could be a Ph.D. he got at fifteen, which honestly would be more logical of a reason to namedrop Harvard specifically, but that just seems, idk. Not quite right. I could certainly buy it though, without any special convincing; it would just make a significant difference in characterization. He's obviously older than the others, but also obviously not by that much. And he seems to have been around some, in a limited sense--spent quite some time at that facility, obviously had some bad experiences out in the world. ...man, I would love to see Hank/Raven(-esque) fic where he realizes how much older than him she is.
Alex and Darwin both seem about 19 to me. Alex maybe 18 or even 17, Darwin maybe 20. Although I think I may be reading a personality trait (protector) as an age marker which it needn't be. I could easily read Alex as older except for his face. And something about him just feels very "older than his years," which requires his years to be not so high.
Angel I could see as young as 17 despite the stripping (before computers and easily-available records, she could have just lied), or a bit older, no more than 20. I feel like I have less to go on with her so it's really just a feeling.
Sean--is that his name, because I've only seen it in fic, but 100% consistently in fic so I think I missed something--is definitely the youngest. (And the one I least share fandom's thing for, because his first scene was like a cocktail of everything Hollywood thinks is quirky and charmingly awkward in young guys that actually makes me want to punch them.) I admit that his face plays a large role in this, I can't help it, but also he just feels the most like a kid. I'd say 16, but I could buy 15 if I pretend his voice was less deep.
Oh and I can't get any kind of a read on Moira because of the way Hollywood always casts adult women characters at least five years too young-looking for any kind of logic, when you take into account their careers and plot function and characterization and their pasts as written. If I were to listen to the movie, I'd say she's about 28.
I will probably have more thoughts soon, primarily derived from staring intently at Erik's face in every scene he was in this time, but they are not quite formed yet. What I have formed is a thought on the ending, namely that it makes EVEN LESS sense than it did the first time. It comes so close to making sense, mostly! I can work with everything well into the climax, and then at some point--not sure if it's when everyone reacts to Shaw's dead body as though it were horrifying and tragic and not in any way expected/necessary (EXPLODING NAZI WAR CRIMINAL, sorry, it's a reflex at this point), or when Erik starts flinging the bullets every which way, or when everyone acts as though Charles were simultaneously dying and not injured at all but just lying down for some reason, or when Erik and Raven just leave and take any possible transportation with them (teleportation? Nope! Magno-flying the broken plane out with everyone conveniently stashed inside it? Nope! Bye Charles, hope you don't bleed out or anything before you eventually get to a hospital hours and hours from now!), but somewhere in there everything flips to "wait, why are you--why are you DOING that, ANY of you, what the FUCK" and I just start harvesting the faces and emotions as "things to include when working out characterization, but obviously didn't actually HAPPEN this way because they make NO SENSE." This may be why I'm having trouble reading post-movie fic.
no subject
Before the 1990s it was quite common for a PhD to take 6-8 years (British undergrad would be 3 years) so late 20s works for me with Charles.
Alex was in an adult prison, so he must be 18; same for Darwin driving a taxi - a strip club might not check for real age, but a cab company will.
*la la la ignores the ending*
no subject
I feel like all the logic of the movie points to Alex being 18, but...his TINY BABY FACE. IDK, sometimes teens get sentenced as adults, I can make it work in my head, logic or not. *g* And I mean, I'm fine with him being 18, really, I just have certain personal preferences regarding that character type. Darwin on the other hand is definitely 18-21.
no subject
no subject
i really can't buy darwin that young, especially given that the actor is 32.
thinking of angel as 17 grosses me out, quite honestly.
i buy sean as ridiculously young, mostly because of that opening scene. what an ass. i hope he grows out of that.
i can't see alex as quite that young, mostly because it seems like he'd been in prison for a while.
the thing about the "kids" though is that, given the circumstances, bonding with people like you after being isolated your entire life ... their childish behavior, showing off their powers, really doesn't seem very surprising at any age.
i would firmly put the "kids", except for sean, in their early to mid twenties.
no subject
I'd definitely think Darwin was older except for the way he interacts with the others--that just doesn't mesh with anything more than early twenties at the oldest, for me. And I find the protectiveness much more interesting if it's a personality trait/product of life experiences rather than a reaction to being the oldest.
Many things about Angel in this movie are gross! I take no responsibility for that.
Alex is the biggest weak point in this list for me, because of his WEE BABY FACE that goes against all logic. I don't know, I just get a really strong vibe of young from him--or rather, much older than his years, which necessarily means young.
I mean, none of them are as young as fandom seems to be making them, but that party scene felt way more like "college kids" than "twenty-somethings."
no subject
there's nothing to stop darwin being older and having a protective personality. even though the actor is 32, i didn't necessarily mean to imply i think he was older than raven, just not anything like 21.
oh agreed about angel, i just don't want to make it worse by assuming she isn't even legal.
maybe it's just because we have such a high median age for university here, but the line between "college kids" and "twenty-somethings" is really thin for me and completely porous in a lot of places.