why must everything be ad absurdum?

[some_stars]

...I think the breastfeeding/infant discussion is completely ridiculous, though. YOU CAN'T BRING YOUR BABIES EVERYWHERE. Just wait a year or two, for fuck's sake. I mean, choosing to breastfeed only and without pumping is an awesome choice, but it's a CHOICE that you make that has CONSEQUENCES. You can't bring your baby to a fucking bar, either.

clarification: I am 1000% in favor of breastfeeding in public and I think it should be allowed in every place babies are allowed. I just don't think everywhere in the entire world needs to allow babies.

Comments

[some_stars]

Oh, for heaven's sake. I am completely in favor of allowing breastfeeding in public, in any place that babies are allowed. I just don't think that every single place in the world needs to allow babies. Most of them, yes. I actually hate "childfree" people for trying to make the world, well, child-free. But not everywhere.

[sweetestdrain]

Um, what? I am still catching up on a lot of current discussion, so I don't want to get involved in the main debate here, but --

I actually hate "childfree" people for trying to make the world, well, child-free.

What is your definition of "child-free"? Because as far as I'm aware, it's a personal choice made by some women/couples for a multitude of different reasons -- psychological, health-related, just don't like kids or have any interest in making more, etc -- and any way you look at it, it is in no way deserving of hatred.

[amireal]

There's an especially... fervent... section of child-free that I think is being talked about here. It goes beyond being child free and into anger and hatred of anything child related.

[sweetestdrain]

Huh. I guess I understand that more, but ... maybe that could be made clearer or a different term could be used for it? I know plenty of "child-free" people who like other people's kids just fine. Some are teachers. And even if you hate kids, well... some folks hate dogs. As long as they aren't burning babies or kicking puppies, I have no beef with them.

[some_stars]

It does get confusing, because the awful ban-children people call THEMSELVES "childfree" and I've developed a pavlovian association with the name of their comm. I will try to be more specific in the future!

[some_stars]

Oh, I'm referring to a certain community that defines themselves as "childfree" and basically want the entire world to ban children forever, and toss around charming terms like "crotchfruit" and "moos". They're a whole comm on livejournal! I'm just so strongly opposed to the attitude that kids don't belong in public space--I mean I'm also, obviously strongly in favor of being able to set up kid-free spaces, but most of the world, you should be able to cope with seeing some kids running around. And these people go into FITS about having to hear a kid whine for thirty seconds.

[sweetestdrain]

Ah, gotcha. That's definitely a bit more extreme than my usual definition of "child-free". Myself, I'd fall into the camp of "tacky, but still a matter of personal taste," but I understand where you're coming from now. (Crotchfruit! How charming! Can I call my future hypothetical children that? From me it would be an expression of love!)

[gool_duck]

I don't think making accommodations for mothers with young dependent babies is the same as having children everywhere.

I also believe there is a difference between a baby - small, feeds, sleeps, poops - and a toddler - who might wander around, get bored, want stimulation and company -- and an older child (which I am not elaborating on because I expect people to have memories of being a child, or knowledge from books and other media, or even experience from other people).

I think it is okay to have the Con not welcome children, because it is a small Con and because children have needs that I can't see the Con meeting. I believe that a small baby attached to its mother, is a different *type* of thing. And a small baby at the point at which it can't be out of its mother's (or other primary carer's) care is possible to accommodate with thoughtfulness and consideration on the convention and the mother's side.

This does mean making accommodation, but, for instance, if there's step-free access to accommodate wheelchairs, it accommodates baby buggies as well. If there's space to sit comfortably there is space to breastfeed. When there are warnings about sudden change in volume and strobing lights, that is a useful thing for a migraine-sufferer to know, and also for a mother of a baby so she can choose whether her baby could stay calmly feeding or sleeping - or even looking at the shiny lights and listening to the music - or it would be better to keep the baby elsewhere. And there has to be the awareness on the mother's side that a fussing baby may well be too much distraction and should not be in the room or should be removed immediately. Some fussing babies can be easily and quickly silenced by breastfeeding.

And people can go to cons and see their friends and engage in fannishness even when they are mothers of new babies. Not all of them, not all the time. But sometimes it can be possible and they shouldn't be excluded offhand.